This is one of those episodes that you just need to listen to understand the title. Because, as Drs. Frederick Schurger and Beth Bagley get into this topic, they cover a wide range of ideas about how we deal with awkward situations and ultimately, when we need to stand up and be heard. Plus, we get into a little bit of history regarding the censorship of chiropractic and the similarities between chiropractic and osteopathy.
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Watch the full episode here
Listen to the podcast here
Things We Hate, What We Tolerate & Censorship Of Chiropractic
Dr. Bagley, how are you doing?
I’m well, but psychologically hurt.
Dr. Beth Bagley would like to start this episode here with things she hates.
I hate shoe shopping for homecoming with my twins when neither of them knows what they want, and then they hate everything that I say. I’m always wrong. I don’t even have time to put makeup on. I feel like my soul has been sucked out of my body but we did come away successful-ish. We have two pairs of shoes and nobody’s crying. I’m inside crying, but nobody’s crying. I’m blessed that I got to do that. I like to think of positive things. I hate Daylight Saving Time.
I concur with you on that Daylight Saving Time. There are so many things. I was joking with a patient about that. If I run over to Indiana to visit my dad’s place, the one-hour time difference messes with me. I’m a little bit groggy afterward. I try not to change too much my sleeping habits. Right now I’m trying to wake up earlier so that when I get over there, my early is normal so that when I go out hunting, it’s still dark at 6:30 or something.
That means I’m getting up at 5:30 now. There’s so much science that isn’t disputed anymore. I wouldn’t call it settled, but it’s certainly not disputed about some of the bad effects that people have. The increase in heart attacks, car accidents, and poor work performance for not 1, but 2 weeks every year. Yet we cannot get that to get past, to get rid of it.
If there’s one thing both Republicans and Democrats could get behind in Congress and that everyone would be excited about, it would be that. Yet that has just sat there and they’ve done nothing with it.
2 or 3 years that they’ve been talking about doing this and getting it fixed and nothing. That makes me more angry than anything else. Aside from the fact that I grew up in Indiana, I never had to deal with it for many years. It made sense in Pennsylvania. The Eastern Time zone is way too wide, and they might need to split it into two pieces. When I was working out in Pennsylvania and the sun was coming up at 4:00 AM, I got it. That makes sense. That is way too early to be waking up. It has more problems especially here in the Midwest. It doesn’t serve us.
I don’t ever hear one person say, “I’m so glad I get to change the clocks.” Nobody says that. We have to rise and say, “We will not change the clocks anymore.” I’m in the mindset that we want to keep the Summer Time, the Daylight Saving Time, just all year round. I want this time to be the same.
I could go either way.
No matter what not changing would be great, but I’m cool with this.
If we did that, that would keep the sun from getting up too early certainly during the summer. Whichever the case may be, it is a mess. Anything else you hate?
There’s another thing I hate is when I hear patients taking advantage of the doctor. Doctors can take advantage of patients, so I’m not saying that doesn’t happen. I had a story that I was reading about on one of the socials, and it’s not my story, but I’m going to read it and I want to hear what you would do in this case as a male chiropractor. I would say what I would do.
“I received a voicemail from a patient that I dismissed from care six years ago. I could no longer treat him because he would not follow through with any recommendations for further testing blood work scans. He kept wanting to come in every week. He was a very difficult person to deal with. The office dreaded his visits. His voicemail was to tell me that his father recently passed and he was taking care of his 85-year-old mother and doesn’t trust any other doctors to see her.”
“He wants to bring her in to see me because she tweaked her hip. He would be the one to bring her, which means I will have to see him and possibly deal with him trying to reestablish being a patient in my office. I don’t want to get into another uncomfortable situation. He did sound desperate. The guilt of hearing him on the call with, ‘This is my mother, doctor,’ is making me question what I do or what to do.” This is a female chiropractor talking about that. Put that in the male perspective. You’ve already dismissed the patient, and now they want to bring a family member in. What would you do?
There are two sides to this. I’ll flip it the other way here in a second too. If it was a male patient who I’m like, “This is not working,” and it’s making the office uncomfortable just in general, this is hard because I’ve had that comment made to me so many times, “Doc, I trust your judgment more than I trust the medical doctors.” I don’t know what that means about the medical profession these days. That begs a couple of different questions.
Whether or not they can do their jobs as effectively as they would like to. Is it the hospitalization? You’ve got 10 minutes with a patient because you’ve got to get 6 patients in. This is your quota for the day cookie-cutter type situation that so many doctors are getting stuck in with these industrialized hospital systems. That’s one of those things where the problem is you want to help that person but you also realize that you are not the only person who can help them.
Quite honestly, the other side of it is you felt uncomfortable with that individual from the get-go, and it was a bad situation for your office. Flip that with a female patient. In my case, a lot of that’s the same uncomfortableness, the same, “This didn’t work out the last time.” This is where, as a chiropractor, for you and I, we both have people that don’t do exactly what we do, that we have met, that we’re like, “You’re doing that work the way that it’s supposed to be done. You are a good doctor.” Sometimes, some of our patients will come in and say, “Doc, I need help with this.” We realize it’s not a good fit for us. We find that another doctor makes a good fit for that patient.
This would be one of those cases, “I don’t feel comfortable with you. For reasons that we’ve already established, I would recommend this individual over here.” For the patients, we do love you. Some of you can get on our nerves a little bit. I’m not going to pretend that you don’t exist. Quite honestly, some of you are coming in regularly, and I’m going to say it. We love you. You also have to realize that if you’re taking up our time and we’re trying to give you the time that you deserve while also taking care of the other patients, and you’re taking away from the other patients, that makes everybody unhappy. That’s a hard one.
We’re trying to give you the time that you deserve while also taking care of the other patients.
You want to help it because It’s not the mother’s fault that the son is an awful human being.
It also begs the question, “How many other people has the son rubbed the wrong way that they trust in you?”
From a risk management perspective runaway, you cannot bring them in because that gives other problems. I get it. I’ve had those cases where everyone’s like, “You’re the man. I’ve gone to everybody else.” Great. Now we’re going to do it my way, the way that I suggested we do it in the first place. If you don’t follow around, you’re out in a week. You have to set those standards. I had a coach several years ago that reminded me of something. One of the things he said is, and this is just great advice, “You get what you tolerate.” Learning how to say no to certain situations is important. If you tolerate certain activities, you’re going to get that. That might not elevate you to the level that you want to be. If you tolerate in your diet, having just one piece of cheesecake every night at dinner.
I saw a clip, which was cute, about a father taking his son for a walk. The son at 4 years old says, “Daddy, we have gone 5 minutes and I must now be carried.” The father is then saying, “You’re the one who said you don’t need the stroller.” “Yes, but Daddy, we must go back. I’m tired. Pick me up.” It eventually comes down to Daddy’s eating two popsicles after dinner every night. Mommy doesn’t know about the second popsicle or something to that effect. “We will go back and we’ll sit on the couch. Don’t tell Mommy.” The first thing the kid does is turn around. “Mommy, Daddy said, ‘We can go sit on the couch for the rest of the afternoon and skip our walk.’” Again, we get what we tolerate.
In that respect, what I would agree, is I would not accept that patient’s mother, or that patient as re-establishing in the practice. I would refer and I wouldn’t feel bad about it. That’s what I hope this other chiropractor or any practitioner comes across and doesn’t feel bad about it. When you set a boundary and won’t tolerate something, you’re not being mean. You’re being nice to yourself and to your staff. We have to protect the people we work with.
I have one more story. There was this creep who came in. He was not my patient. He was one of my associates. All of my associates so far have been female. Not that I wouldn’t hire a male chiropractor, I would love to, but so far, it’s just been female chiropractors. She got creeped out by him, but she never told me. I never got a good feeling about him in general but he wasn’t my patient. I saw him a couple of times.
I didn’t know about all of the things that led up to the final blow. Now that look back at it, we should have dismissed him way before that. One time, he was face down on the table, and then he reached out and grabbed her leg. He’s like, “Is that your leg?” That’s weird. You don’t touch people. She didn’t tell me that. Again, I would immediately have kicked him out of the practice at that moment if I had known about that. When he would talk to you, he got real close.
Close talkers are always weird.
To the point where his body was touching the side of you. He did that to me one time. I dismissed it because I didn’t know all the other things. I thought, “He just doesn’t understand those boundaries,” but he never touched me. He would sometimes bring her food. Again, sometimes our patients bring us food. It was like, “I made this fancy whatever, and I brought you a leftover thing.” She said it was good. She did eat it. That was again, before all the other things happened. He was giving his second set of X-rays taken, and this was when we had X-rays and not the fancy machine. We had the CBCT. He flirted with the idea of them going out together.
Now, he was married and he was much older. She came to me immediately at that point. He said it in a very not-okay way. At that point, I boiled with anger. He had already been out of there, but I would’ve gone up to him at that point. I’m glad he had already left. I called my coach, Dr. Noel Lloyd, and I said, “What should I do? Next time he comes in, should I talk to him? Should I tell him this is your last visit?” He goes, “No. There’s no next time he comes in. Call him on the phone.”
You called him on the phone and you were done.
I called him on the phone and said, “Sir, you’ve been acting inappropriately with my staff. That’s unacceptable. You are no longer a patient in the clinic. Effective immediately, we’ll be sending you a letter with three places to refer you,” which were all male doctors that I sent it to. His comment was, “Okay.”
He knows. He’s done it before.
I was like, “You swarmy bee.” I hate that happened to a young female chiropractor. It doesn’t happen to me much because I am gigantic. You guys haven’t seen me stand up, but I am 6’1. I’m very tall.
That is why I’m still trying to figure out why your girls just bought shoes with bigger heels because they’re as tall as you are.
They’re not going to be taller than me. They’re plenty tall. Their growth plates are pretty much done. I took a picture not for that reason, but I could see it in that picture. They’ve got tall shoes. If you know that you’re a gross dude, go see a male chiropractor.
Go the other way.
If you know that you have a problem with that, you need to see a chiropractor you couldn’t possibly be attracted to either the same sex, different sex, or whatever your game is.
It is one of the reasons why I am surprised that any men are going into OBGYN. I know there are.
I find it interesting that they do that too.
You almost need to be a woman to be able to relate properly.
The empathy and we could say the same thing about the urologist.
The urologist goes back and forth.
Typically, you’ve got male patients.
It’s the proctologist who knows and enjoys doing the prostate exams that I’m just like, “No.”
I don’t know if they enjoy it. Maybe they do.
There’s a couple.
I’m glad they exist.
Dr. Buder is too good at it. We won’t talk about why that’s the case.
I have another story. In Kirksville, Missouri, there is a college, and it’s called Truman University. It’s part of the Missouri University system. There’s also an osteopathic school. It’s like medical school, but osteopaths get a DO instead of an MD. They need subjects to practice stuff on. There are young college students who don’t have any money.
My brother-in-law’s fraternity would go and be the dummies for the Proctology exams where they’d stick the fingers up and then they’d also cut the testicles. They would call it Butts for Bucks. They would sign up for different times and they would all take their turns to make money for the fraternity. Scott got stuck one time and nobody showed up after him. He got stuck there. He was there for three hours. All of them. Poor Scott. Sorry, Scott, his poor butt. He made a lot of bucks for his butt.
Sometimes you take one for the team.
It’s a funny story he tells. I’m sure he tells it better because there are probably more things. Anyway, that’s one of the things that we were going to bring up is censorship in chiropractic. Osteopathy had some censorship at the beginning of that too.
A lot of people think osteopaths who do a level of manipulation do exactly what chiropractors do. There are similarities. Some chiropractors don’t do much more than a gross manipulation when they go to adjust. There are folks like you and I who are so precise that we’re looking down a very specific angle, a very specific vector on one segment. Not even just one segment, but oftentimes, one joint of a segment is our goal for our adjustment.
What happened is the osteopath’s chiropractors have been offered something similar as well. They’ve looked at this, but the osteopaths were non-medical or they did not prescribe. At a certain point in time, they decided, “We’re going to do prescribing rights.” A lot of their heritage and history died out as a result of that. Not all of it. Some of them are coming back to it because they realize the system is broken. As many of us have realized especially over the past couple of years just keeping on taking drugs doesn’t necessarily get you healthier. There are a couple of things. I’m back and forth on homeopathy.
Quick question about homeopathy. Naturopaths practice homeopathy. Are homeopaths the same thing as a naturopath?
I don’t know. You’re not the only one. I’ve heard so many things and I don’t know how the ins and outs go. I know what ended up happening though. Around the late 1920s, there was a boom as we started getting better medicines, as they started figuring out, “I can, from a chemical, create a medicine.” This was out of the oil boom because they figured out that there were carbon molecules that they could create that then created changes within the body.
This is where people like the Rockefellers came into the picture. They started saying, “If you sell our medications, and you promote that.” What is now called medical doctors were allopaths. With the help of a pharmacist, they figured out what drugs worked well for situations. They were treating the symptoms. That’s what allopathic medicine has always been about. It was, “Here’s the symptom. We use this to treat said symptom.”
To a lesser degree, osteopathy looked at and said, “What we are treating is improper flows in the body, specifically blood flow.” Chiropractic said, “What we’re focusing on is correcting vertebral subluxations that are impinging upon neural tissue, preventing the nervous system from working the way it’s supposed to.” Things seem to have fit a model. That seems to work in certain ways. In the end, homeopathy was saying, “If we dilute something down to the individual most minute spot, where it’s mostly water, but there’s just a little bit of whatever the toxin was, that helps you heal.”
I’ve done some homeopathy that worked well. I’ve seen some other stuff that I don’t know. If it works, I’m not opposed to it. If there are questions, that means more research and study. In comes Rockefeller, and Rockefeller says, “I only want medical schools because I can make money selling our product.” All of a sudden, Rockefeller is funding all these medical schools.
They funded the textbooks. They gave them free textbooks. They wrote the textbooks and gave them to them for free. They donated tons of money to the medical schools. They pretty much owned the medical schools and the information that was transferred to the medical doctors.
Whoever owns the information flow owns the mind of whomever you’re flowing it to.
It’s an information war. All evil empires know this. You have to control the information. What happened then is the medical schools were told that they have to teach all this basic knowledge that had been hundreds of years in the making of, “This bark does this, and then this plant does this. It’s free. You just have to find it in your garden.”
All of that was BS even though it’s been hundreds of years. I’m not saying some medical technology hasn’t been phenomenal and amazing. Some of these medications, things as insulin and antibiotics are saving billions of lives. There’s a lot that wasn’t great. Chiropractic was a baby. We’re going to focus on us because we know about us.
We know more about us than the homeo. The homeopaths almost disappeared.
We don’t even know if homeopaths and naturopaths are the same. We’ve got the American Medical Association, which should be a group of doctors that are trying to improve the medical knowledge and all that stuff. That got bought too. Now we have all of these things that are working to eliminate other health practitioners. Chiropractic took a big hit on that. There’s proof and we’ll talk about how some amazing lawyers and doctors found the proof. There was proof that they were systematically trying to eliminate chiropractic from the world.
That started in the mid-‘60s because the developer of chiropractic, B.J. Palmer, was a huge force not just in chiropractic and developing the technique and research, but politically, he knew Reagan. He fired Reagan. B.J. owned two radio stations in Iowa. One that is now a TV station. Reagan worked for the radio station back in the day. There are some fun, funny stories involving Reagan at that radio station regarding a baseball game. The baseball game is fantastic, as told by Reagan. Go look it up.
He was politically connected throughout the country. People knew him because of his chiropractic endeavors, research endeavors, and philanthropy that he was doing throughout the world or the US at the very least. He was connected. When B.J. died in the early 60s, ’63 or ‘62, they saw an opportunity because quite honestly, chiropractic was a little bit in disarray, especially the college after his death. Lots of problems and political infighting as with all young professions or young organizations. They saw an opportunity and started sending out little flyers and pamphlets suggesting that chiropractors couldn’t join organizations.
What I want to talk about real quick is the AMA in 1983. That’s not that long ago. The AMA held that it was unethical for medical doctors to associate with an unscientific practitioner, and labeled chiropractic an unscientific cult. Before 1980, Principle 3 of the AMA Principles of Medical Ethics stated, “A physician should practice a method of healing founded on a scientific basis, and should not voluntarily, professionally, or associate with anyone who violates this principle.” They were told that if they did that, they would be bad doctors. God forbid, a medical doctor went to a chiropractor. Even to this day, we still feel some of the brunt of that with the older generation. It’s less than it used to be, but we still feel it. We can keep going there.
This all started in the 1960s. They would send out pamphlets. If you’ve got a primary doctor who happens to be a medical doctor, you should ask them if they belong to the American Medical Association. I will be surprised if more than a handful will answer yes to that question. It’s 1 out of 5 if not less.
Membership is the best way to describe it. The AMA is especially one of those organizations that has a very small membership relative to the population of medical doctors that exist. It makes it out that they are the top of the top and they’re the cream of the crop. They are the voice of the medical profession, yet they are only a small minority. Often many of them disagree, but at the risk to themselves and their medical licenses because they set the standards. If you let somebody set a standard for you, if you let somebody tell you what you’re going to tolerate, you’re going to have to tolerate it.
This stuff was going on in the ‘60s and the ‘70s and it ran through the ‘80s, but the damage was done. The genie was out of the bottle. I prefer using Pandora’s box in this case if people remember that myth. You couldn’t put the thing back in because it was already making a bad stain on chiropractic. Are there other things that chiropractors have done to make a bad scene in the profession? Absolutely. I’m not going to say that there isn’t.
Still to this day, there are lots of chiropractors making huge mistakes on social media and making the profession look bad. I’ll be honest, any profession has that. Chiropractors are a special group of idiots sometimes.
When we do it, it’s a microscope immediately. When other people do it, they’re like, “That happens.” Again, if one person died while under chiropractic care, it would be national news. Don’t ask how many people die every day. Not necessarily because they weren’t going to survive a given thing, but because of properly prescribed medicines that were improper for the case.
If someone wants to research that, it’s iatrogenic deaths associated with medicine.
This is all starting and what ended up happening, and I’m looking at a couple of things here that I haven’t reviewed in a while. One of the things was it was a nationwide attack on chiropractic and the profession as a whole. In 1966, the AMA adopted a resolution called Chiropractic an unscientific cult. They were still doing that, like you said, until the 1980s.
The damage was done at that point.
They kept chiropractors out of hospitals. There was never a chance for a chiropractor to stay at a hospital, even though many had been. George McAndrews was the head of the group. He was the lawyer that led the Wilk suit, which was four chiropractors who said, “We found evidence that there is a problem here.” George McAndrews was passionate about chiropractic. I don’t know if you’re aware of this. George McAndrews comes from a family of chiropractors. He’s the black sheep because he was the one who broke the law.
He made such a huge impact on our profession.
His dad couldn’t walk and a chiropractor had tried something. Here’s where it gets weird. The chiropractor jumped on him and he was able to get up and do better. That’s the way that he, as a child, remembers it. In any case, he’s got a family of 6 or 7 of them. It was a big family. All of the others went into chiropractic. What they eventually figured out was not only was the AMA distributing these pamphlets, but they were immediately disposing of them.
There was a group of individuals. We don’t know who these individuals were. There are some suspicions that it was a group of either Latter-Day Saints or some Scientologists, 1 of the 2. I can’t remember which one it was but it was a religious group. They never did know who these people were, but they ended up going to work for the AMA and the AMA’s building where they were printing these things.
They were told to shred and get rid of all this evidence of all these pamphlets that they had been putting out for years. Those pamphlets, instead of being destroyed, were put into a trash can, taken off the premises, and delivered to Dr. Wilkins, then later Mr. McAndrews used them as evidence that the American Medical Association was trying to prevent and eliminate chiropractors. That was their goal.
Let’s fast forward to ’76. Chester Wilk and four other chiropractors sued the AMA, several nationwide healthcare associations, and several physicians for violations of Sections 1 and 2 of the Sherman Antitrust Act. They lost the first trial. It happened in 1981. Look at that already. They started in 1976 and went all the way until 1981. That’s how much back and forth went.
This is always the case. When you have to get the lawyers and a judge involved, it’s going to take a long time.
This took exceptionally long. These aren’t rich people. This is a very rich organization that they’re suing.
The AMA got their money from something else. There was a product that they promoted and they got a kickback on that product on the radio that gave them their fund and war chest to do these kinds of attacks on other professions.
They got a new appeal and they ended up winning in ’93 and that’s when things changed. If you’ve been telling someone for 30 years, they’re the bad guy. They’re a cult. They’re awful. These doctors are training the next generation of doctors and medical doctors. We still see the repercussions of what was happening. I do think it’s changing. We get referrals from medical doctors now. We have relationships with medical doctors now because we don’t do what they do and they don’t know what we do.
Here’s one of my favorite bits. There was a medical doctor who testified on behalf of the chiropractors. Per Freitag, a medical physician who associates with chiropractors has observed that patients in one hospital who receive chiropractic treatment were released sooner than patients in another hospital where he is on staff that does not allow chiropractors. That was a risk to his professional integrity.
Per Freitag was teaching down the road here at the medical school in Springfield, Illinois. I got to meet the man. Fantastic. I got to shake his hand. It’s nice to meet the real heroes. When you meet somebody like that, you’re like, “What kind of medical doctor are you?” The man died at his desk on a Friday afternoon. They didn’t find the body until Monday because he was doing what he loved right up to the end. That’s the kind of medical doctor he was so much so that he said, “These chiropractors are doing something right. I don’t know what it is, but they’re doing something right.”
It’s neat to realize and meet these people and realize that they were helping us and making sure other people could get the care that they needed no roadblocks for censorship. That was when the US judge found a medical group conspired against chiropractors. That was August 28th, 1987. We’re still dealing with it. There was another study or story that I saw looking at in 2015 about how it’s still affecting us. To contain and eliminate chiropractic was their goal.
That was the terminology. That’s what they found on paper. That was a memo or whatever.
It’s something that we still need to be aware of because censorship of information has never stopped. We think we live in a world where we have free information. We have a lot of information that seems free, but who decided what you’re going to hear? This scares me. This is what I love about podcasts. It’s to be able to share stories, share what our knowledge and our experiences have been. We see amazing things that don’t necessarily fit the normal paradigm or certainly the normal narrative of what is going on.
As we were coming up with this right now, there’s a lot of natural health stuff that is being censored. I remember in 2019, I was driving over to see my dad and mom and get her adjusted. It might’ve been 2020. Either way, I heard Robb Wolf who is a big health advocate. He owns LMNT, an electrolyte product. He was saying that justice in 2019, or maybe even as early as 2018, natural health products and websites were being suppressed by the Google algorithm.
They were not showing up as high just to say, “How do I naturally treat a headache?” Google was putting those results on the 2nd or 3rd page. You and I all know that if it’s not on the first page, oftentimes, you’re thinking, “The best stuff’s on the first page. That’s how Google curates stuff to give me the best stuff right off the bat.” It is not. That’s scary and annoying that you’re not getting the best information possible.
We go with, “Who’s the master control of Google?” I would say the highest bidder summary.
Maybe a little bit of China in that group.
Sammy, my dog, is upset by Google.
Sammy can come over and bark at Google with us.
There’s some of the government in there. Speaking of government, I’ve never and I hope to never see it, but I’m sure I will see the amount of censorship that happened by our government and by the power that the pharmaceutical industry and others during the COVID epidemic.
We already know that the government was saying, “We need to get these individuals censored,” so much so that Alex Berenson, a former New York Times reporter, was just saying, “This doesn’t make sense.” He gets banned from Twitter as a result of that. Now he settled that case and is back out. We might find out all that data and what ended up being the reason he got censored. We know that there was a back door to at least Twitter. There is evidence that they’re trying to go after other people and eliminate them from all platforms. Whether he’s innocent or not, Russell Brand is getting attacked by anonymous sources which tells us nothing. I’m not going to say the man was a saint.
He says he’s not a saint. He’s the first one to say, he’s the first one to tell you he was a drug addict and he was promiscuous. He’s not anymore. He’s changed.
Russell gets a letter not from any organization, but the government itself, saying, “You got to take Russell Brand off your platform because he’s a problem and because of these allegations.” All of a sudden, they’re like, “No. We don’t need to listen to you because you are not driving this thing.” They’re trying to eliminate him from the conversation. You don’t hear about the information and yet you see little bits and pieces and people can talk about it. They eliminate you from the conversation.
This becomes a problem because people like Dr. Mercola have been around for several years now talking about different ways to be healthy. He’s an osteopath too. He’s an old-school osteopath, looking for ways to make people healthy without the need for drugs and surgery. His website, for the longest time, only had links up for maybe 48 hours. Otherwise, it wouldn’t last long. He’d have to pull it down so that he didn’t get attacked by various organizations. He was talking reasonable stuff about vitamin D. Folks, I’ve talked about taking a dose of Vitamin D. That might be too much. I say, “Don’t start like that. Work yourself up to it and talk to your doctor.”
Get some blood tests and see where your numbers are.
He was talking about just going out and getting sunlight from vitamin D.
Not sunlight. Without sunscreen on my face?
He was getting attacked by not the FDA, but the FTC for making statements as a doctor.
If he can’t say it, who can? I know chiropractors were at the same time talking about vitamins, which we are allowed to talk about. There’s one in my town, Eric. He got sued and all sorts of stuff happened to him. He was loud. I went to school with him. I graduated with him. He’s a good guy. He’s still doing well. He would not shut up. I gave it to him.
We shouldn’t.
He wasn’t going to tolerate it anymore.
The thing is it’s getting worse because now you have a world-renowned medical doctor like Peter McCullough. Folks, to understand who Peter McCullough is, Peter McCullough is a cardiologist. He has been board-certified for as long as probably some of those boards have been around.
He’s more well-written in medical journals than probably almost anyone, especially anybody in his field of cardiology.
He’s not just a researcher. He is a clinician. He’s doing both research and seeing patients. He’s doing this stuff at a high level. He is the most published doctor alive at the moment, especially as a clinician. He’s saying, “I’ve got questions. I want to get better answers.” He’s going after and into the research asking the questions. He’s still being suppressed.
They tried to take away some accolades he had. They did take some away.
One of the board certifications was in question.
Just because he spoke about COVID and how to treat it. It wasn’t all natural stuff either. It wasn’t like how a chiropractor would be like vitamin D, rest. There were some medications that he was saying that perfectly legitimate medications.
Which are now being redeemed in the media.
They’re fine three years later. Do you mean horse-based? It was ridiculous. Ivermectin, for the people who don’t know what it is, is an anti-parasitic.
It has won the Nobel Prize in medicine.
For humans, not for horses.
It happens to be off-patent.
It costs pennies. They don’t make enough money.
It was used around the world for malaria. I don’t understand why this drug as an anti-parasitic works so well for COVID.
I did some research on it.
It’s not as effective. Later strains needed other things. Ivermectin was not, and never was the silver bullet.
No. It was one of many things that was helpful.
How do you get to know that anybody said, “I found a solution that works right now. Let’s run this right now,” if they’re being censored? This was the worst part. I believe Pierre Kory’s testimony on Capitol Hill on C-SPAN. He testified back in the end of ‘20 going into ‘21, about his experience and how effective Ivermectin was. YouTube has taken that testimony off of C-SPAN. Another one was a Florida round table discussion that was going on later in ’21 with renowned medical doctors.
We’re not talking about somebody who just got their MD and selling snake oil. These are doctors who have been asking questions and saying, “Something is not right here.” They were on whatever the Florida gov website was, but the YouTube channel was doxxed or nixed. This is why if you don’t find us on YouTube and you’re looking for us, go over to Rumble. I’m going to start uploading these to Rumble. Rumble said, “We are not going to censor our people if what they are saying is true.”
So far so good. Where do we go from here? For me, I loved what you said about how you get what you tolerate. Freedom gets taken little tiny bites and it doesn’t get given back. Some of us never tolerated any of the tyranny that was happening in the past few years. Some of us did. What I’m going to say is I am no longer going to tolerate any of it.
You get what you tolerate. Freedom gets taken in as little as tiny bites and isn’t given back.
We can’t. At a certain point in time, we have to make a decision and we have to put a line in the sand. Why am I talking about censorship now when the AMA isn’t trying to censor us? I don’t think it’d ever stop. There is still a group of people who are AMA-adjacent that won’t come out or are not openly acknowledged and are still trying to get rid of the chiropractic profession.
I truly believe most medical doctors are fabulous people and don’t feel the way that this tiny group of powerful people feels. That’s the thing. It’s always a tiny group with a bad agenda that feels like they’re saving or doing something.
It’s not necessarily that it’s a bad agenda. They think they know what is right for you, me, and everyone else. That’s not freedom. That is not getting to the bottom line of what is an answer for an individual. Do you and I have patients that walk in our door that we’re like, “We’re going to see if this helps, but I wouldn’t be surprised if I’m sending you to the medical doctor?”
I take a picture and I’m like, “You do not have a problem that I need to help you with. Do not passcode. Do not collect $200. You need to go right to the oncologist or the cardiologist or whoever.” Part of our job is to not necessarily triage but to identify a problem that we cannot help with. Especially, a higher medical issue that is more pressing like cancer in the brain or in the bones.
Those lesions need to be addressed first. “Come back and see us afterward. We’ll get your head on straight.” Those types of things are life-threatening. I had a patient whose neck was all jacked up. She wants to be an ER nurse and a trauma nurse and do the life flights. That is her goal. She’s been in the ER several times for herself, for some health issues she has.
She’s like, “I heard a lot. Who do I go to first, the ER or Dr. Schurger? I’m going to go to Dr. Schurger first because I know he can get me in pretty quick.” She had some stuff going on. I check in with her. She says it’s feeling better. I had another patient who spent 3 or 4 hours in the ER, then went to the other ER here in town, not to get an answer.
Sometimes we put their head on straight and that takes care of it or at least it gets things moving in the right direction. I don’t want to say that we are the answer for everybody. Chiropractic and especially the upper cervical work we do is amazing. Why would over 200 of us fly out to Vegas to hang out and not just do Vegas? We’re going to be in a seminar and we’re going to enjoy ourselves there.
We want to be better doctors. We’re going to learn better things. I can’t wait. Every time we go to a Blair conference, I come away with so much information.
We’re going to have a couple of good episodes. We might have 3 or 4 good episodes that we will do.
I’ve got a win for one patient, but to end here is that she’s a physical therapist, who works with kids. She spent the last couple of years caregiving with some elderly parents. She came in and looked like a shell of a woman, honestly, sunken, not well. She’s only been with me for two weeks and she came in on Thursday. She looked at me and she did look better to me too, but she said, “Doc, I’ve got more energy. I was at work all day, and I had energy throughout the whole day.” I said, “That’s amazing.”
She goes, “One other thing, one of my family members told me I have more color on my face.” I said, “That’s amazing. That’s the power of what we’re doing.” What’s so cool is she knows that I’m not doing physical therapy and she’s not doing chiropractic. She’s helping kids that have special needs have mobility. I love that she does that. I love that we can be chiropractors and work together. These more medical-minded practitioners, that stuff is broken now. She wasn’t told that she was crazy for going to see a chiropractor. She doesn’t feel crazy. That didn’t even cross her mind. I love that, where years ago, she would’ve had to say secretly, “I’m seeing a chiropractor.” We don’t have to be like that anymore.
That goes back and forth. That goes both ways. I know a bunch of chiropractors who wouldn’t go to see a medical doctor because they didn’t have a medical problem. They said, “Maybe I should go get this checked out.” I might have saved some people’s life. I still wonder about Dr. Matthias, who’s now passed. My other buddy passed as well did my mom. If he’d gone to the cardiologist, maybe they would’ve caught this, and they said, “Doc, you need a stent. You just need one.”
I did have a patient in fact, I didn’t need to follow up with him. He’s a young kid who had a heart attack. They got him right on into the ER with a bunch of stents. They’re still going in for a bypass after that but he’s young. Unfortunately, his diet wasn’t as great as it could be. Some other health issues precluded him from being as physically active as he would’ve liked to have been. There are all sorts of things.
There’s a place for all of us and we don’t need to eliminate. We don’t need to feel like that for any practitioners. If you were doing black magic or something as a healing art, I probably wouldn’t. You’d be eliminated.
There’s a place for all of us; you don’t need to eliminate.
I’d be a little suspect. Even then, if you’re doing good black magic.
There is no good black magic. If you weren’t hurting anyone, that’s libertarian freedom. We took an oath to do no harm, just like the medical doctors did. We’re all on the same team. We just need to work together and I’m happy to do it.
Dr. Bagley, where can they find you?
I’m in in St. Louis. You can find me at PrecisionChiropracticSTL.com.
I’m in Springfield, Illinois. KeystoneChiroSPI.com. Folks, thank you for tuning in. Feel free to five-star and send us a review. I’m going to go dig up some reviews to share on the next episodes or so. Share on all the socials so that people can hear this message. Remember, everything you read might not be the whole truth.
Even from us.
Do your own do your research and if you find some research, contradict what we say. Send it over. I’m more than happy to find something that contradicts what I do so I can do it better.
Take care, everyone.
Thank you, everyone.
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