Drs. Bagley and Schurger discuss their findings regarding how often most people will come in with a lower cervical problem that has been hidden by the Atlas problem. This is a great discussion regarding how sometimes it takes a couple of extra visits to really dial in all the healthcare needs that a person has. We also discuss how we’re trying to get you back to optimal health as quickly as possible. And stick around to hear how we stuffed our faces over the holiday.
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How are you doing?
I am doing good. It is our first recorded episode of 2024. We have had a crazy week already, both of us. This is going to be a little bit disjointed. We have a little bit of a plan for what we want to talk about, but quite honestly, it's 6:20. Dr. Bagley texted me saying, “I put the last one down to rest and I was getting one up.” Honestly, I'm yawning already.
We are going to get our second wind. We are going to kick butt on this episode because all of you need some of this information. Some of you have no idea. Your life is going to change after tuning in to this episode.
Let's address the elephant in the room. Why am I exhausted? I know you're as busy as I am. This is the first day that I had a morning shift, but I think I’ve had 4 new patients in 2 days out of the blue. I'm managing all of that myself. I have people who are saying, “I need to go see Dr. Schurger.” A lot of them just moved to the area and they said, “I think this upper cervical stuff might be for me.”
I love that. I'm never going to complain about being busy or not being able to breathe for a second. I love being busy. It was simple. I'm also the type of doctor who doesn't like when too many people are waiting in the waiting room because it makes me nervous. Second of all, I don't like going to a doctor's office and waiting for a long time.
There are certain professions where it has to happen, like OB-GYN, they could have been called when a thing happens and I get it. In a chiropractic office, we should be able to manage patients effectively. I had people waiting in the waiting room for longer than I liked, maybe 15 to 20 minutes past their appointment time. I hated it. Apologies to any of you that I made you do that. A whole bunch of people had hurt themselves after the holidays.
Can you imagine that?
It was great to see some of them, but you also need to take better care of yourself.
I was the same way. I had one of those new patients start at 1:30, but I was starting my afternoon at 2:30. She took longer than expected because she's a complex PI case from an auto accident. I walked up and everybody was either a hair late or a hair early. By 3:15, I had a full waiting room as I was getting everybody back and forth between the two rooms. I didn't get to my notes until the end of the evening because I was like, “We'll take care of notes at the end.” It saves me about a minute per person.
Still, I don't think I stopped moving until 5:30 or 6:00. I took a nap and then had to get more work done because some of these people were coming in the next day to get their first adjustment. Sure enough, the one young lady is doing much better from getting that first adjustment after that car accident. She's as tall as you. She might be taller. What's funny is I was joking that she might be able to stand herself up straight and hit 6’3”. She said 6’2.5” is the tallest.
I didn't measure her before we adjusted her, but the machine measures 72, but it takes an inch out automatically. She was at 73 after her adjustment and she came out of the resting room and said, “Everything is brighter.” I'm pretty excited. I think she's going to do great. Time will tell, of course. I’m always curious to see how many people have messed themselves up over the break.
I was on vacation officially between Christmas and New Year's. We get back into town on Friday afternoon at 4:30, and at 5:00, I have a half dozen patients waiting for me, including one who's a regular who got in a car accident earlier that week. It's been busy and it's wonderful. I like this. One of my nuns who works in a hospital system commented, “Doc, you want to see 50 people a day?” I'm like, “Yes, I do.” I was enjoying that extra busy afternoon. It was a great opportunity.
One of the things that I thought about was when you have a husband and wife or two family members come in together. One of them starts doing well and fast for care. The other one is a slow changer and everybody is different. I had to have that heart-to-heart conversation with the wife and I was like, “I know your husband is one of those types of getting an adjustment,” and miracle changes. All these changes. His vision is better, his night vision is better, his headaches are pretty much gone and they were constant, and his range of motion is better.
He's a truck driver. Not that it's not important for everyone, but driving a truck at night, you need all of your senses and big trucks too. She manages the business but also is a mom and her symptoms are changing a little bit, but not much change. It's not like better. It's not like, “I feel great.” She feels icky still. That's one of those hard conversations and saying, “It's okay.” You can't ever compare apples to oranges. You can't compare yourself to your husband or anybody else because everybody’s journey is different.
Everybody's journey is different.
You’re starting in different places.
Sometimes, people take longer to heal. I was one of those people. I did see some immediate changes, but it was a good four months before I realized how much better I was. Anyway, that's my little win and story about how it's okay for it to take time.
I see those very regularly. Sometimes, one spouse will notice a change and the other one won't. The worst is when they both notice it. The one says, “I'm not sure if it's a change,” and they play it down. It's like, “Did you have this problem last week?” “Yeah, I suppose. I could do everything that I was supposed to do.” You also have the situation where the wife comes in and she's like, “Doc, something's still not right. Something lower hadn't cleared out yet.”
She was complaining and she had a first rib that was out of place and hadn't released. Give it a week. It probably would've taken care of itself, but it might have knocked her out one more time. I said, “We'll do a little bit of a tap on that,” and that helped her out. She's still complaining about her husband. She's like, “Doc, I don't think he got them clear because he's still snoring.” I'm like, “I’ll keep on looking. I’ll keep on doing my best,” but sometimes these things take a little bit more time. There are other factors that we aren't adding to the equation here that might be playing into the symptoms that we're seeing at the time.
One of the questions, and we talked about this, is if somebody comes in and needs a C1 adjustment and then the next day or two days later, they come in and need a different adjustment like C2. Why does that happen?
I think there are layers. I joke that we are like ogres. We have different layers, like an onion.
Maybe like a trifle. Why can't it be a trifle? Everybody likes a trifle.
That is a good reference. We should start using trifle now. I like that better. We have different things going on at any given time. There are two different ways to approach this. The first way is that we have injury A that we are healing through over time, and this doesn't necessarily get into C1 and then a couple of weeks later, at C2.
This gets into the way the atlas had gone out as we'd been adjusting them from the right and then, 4 or 5 months down the road, that adjustment from the right wasn't clearing them out. You take a new picture and you're like, “I have a new angle. We are going to have a better adjustment on the left.” Sure enough, we adjust them on the left.
It’s a very similar adjustment in regards to how they have gone out of place, but it is a big change for how we are approaching it. We've probably healed past one injury and now we have a new injury. It’s not something that happened recently, but an older injury that is now surfacing to a new need to get fixed. That's one way to approach that.
Sometimes we'll have a situation where they’re like, “Doc, something is lingering.” We went in there, and we checked it and did not find anything. We look for a couple of visits and then all of a sudden, it pops up. What I think is we have two things going on. One, neurologically, the atlas is a prime. I don't know whether or not the doctors are primed for it or whether or not the body recognizes that the atlas has a huge component to the healing process.
So much so that if the atlas is out of place and the others aren't to a similar level of impairment, it’s not the right word but it's close, then maybe both of them will show up, the atlas and the axis or the atlas and C3. Generally, what I suspect is the atlas being out of place overwhelms the nervous system so much that even those C2, C3, or C4, maybe not all three of those, but one of those might still be a problem.
It's so overs shined by the atlas that unless the atlas is properly back in alignment and staying there, those others don't show up to any significant degree. Whether or not that is a situation where the body says, “I'm ready to address those lower ones,” because that other injury has finally come up to the surface or because it is overshadowed still by something of the atlas not being as clear as we would like it to be.
I'm so glad you brought this up the way you did and that we haven't pre-talked about this because I feel the same way. I don't think this is taught. They don't discuss it the way we're discussing it here. You're 100% on track with it because I see the same thing in my office where C1 is blazing out and I can't see anything else. They could have seven other misalignments, but I can only see that because C1 is so impaired or impairing the nervous system, we have to adjust it.
We adjust it. Late links will come back to even and the scan clears out, but those other things are still there and they're still present and we neurologically can't see it until C1 is stabilized. I do explain that to my patients in a very similar way as you do. I don't have a double-blind placebo-controlled study that says that that's correct. Considering I see it in the same way that you're seeing it and 2 different doctors in 2 different states, we're on the right track with that.
There are a couple of things to think about here and the reason that it's not discussed amongst the techniques is largely because it's very observational at this point in time. We understand there's not a chiropractor on the planet who adjusts the spine. Let's be specific. There are a lot of chiropractors on the planet who do nutrition and acupuncture. If they ever adjusted a spine, the last spine they adjusted was in the clinic as a student. They did not take it out to their practice. I'm talking about chiropractors who adjust the spine. If you ask any of them where are they going to adjust, gun to their head, they have one segment to adjust to get someone better, they're always going to say atlas because they know that that has the greatest impact.
We understand that and that is something that we can address. What we don't understand is whether there are hierarchies along the spine that may be more important than we should be looking at. Certainly, the Gonstead folks who do a more full spine approach, when you start talking to some of the guys who are teaching and understanding what Dr. Gonstead had figured out, you might see using the thermography breakpoint analysis, multiple spots showing up. Maybe you'll see an L5, L4, T1, T5, C7, and C2; maybe all of those will show up.
You might only choose 3 of them and you're not going to choose 4 and 5 because they're too close to each other. You might choose 5, you might choose 1 of those thoracics or maybe that lower cervical and then C2. They like to keep them spread out because they believe that that is having a neurological impact that is maybe too much for the body to handle if you want to take care of all of them.
We can all say that the atlas has this high priority. This comes back to what the doctors are looking for. Most doctors practicing upper cervical chiropractic think, “What's going on with the atlas today?” Whereas those of us who practice the Blair work certainly have a strong look towards the atlas. We at least acknowledge that those lower ones might have some involvement day in and day out.
How does one segment shine another and how many people have been trained to be sensitive enough to feel, “Something else is out and I know what my atlas feels like.” Case in point. One of my concussion cases was a military Marine. I need to have him on the show sometime soon. He's fantastic. He's been doing some injection work with a doctor down in Myrtle Beach. He's super excited about how much it's changed.
Normally, his atlas is out, and we changed how we adjusted his atlas, which is completely new for him. He got back. He flew down there over the holiday, came back, and said, “Doc, something is off. It's not my atlas or at least it's something different.” Sure enough, his axis was out of place. I adjust his axis and he is like, “Yeah, that's the one.” If I could have seen more non-atlas patient adjustments, most of them were axis. I saw a lot, I’ll be honest.
Me too. I don't know what the holidays did to people but I did.
Maybe everybody relaxed over the holidays and their atlas were able to settle.
I have a lot of atlas holding, but then also a lot of weird stuff today too.
I concur. I am right there with you on that. It begs the question, what is the body available to heal? One of the worst comments, not towards me and my practice, but one of the comments that I had, I ran into somebody randomly. We were talking shop and he knew that I was a chiropractor. The comment that was made was, “The thing I don't like about chiropractors is they don't get all of the segments that need to be adjusted and I have to come back for another visit.”
I thought about that for a second and I know that's not the case, but why isn't that the case, and what else is going on and how do we explain it to patients? This has been at least a decade running through my brain. How do we address the person who thinks that we're not doing everything we can on that visit as opposed to addressing the fact that we've done everything that can be done on that visit?
We also have to give the body a chance to heal. That's what I feel like it's the instant fix mentality of I take a pill and I feel better. Chiropractic does not fit into that peg. That's a square peg and a round hole. It doesn't fit. The way I explain it is like, “Doc, I don't think you got it.” I'm like, “You are in alignment at this point. Your body is catching up with that. You can't feel it immediately. It's not an instant fix.” I say, “I wish it was an instant fix. If I could snap my fingers and make you feel 100%, I would do that, but that's not how our bodies work and it's okay. I bet tomorrow, you will be feeling a little bit better. If I do more at this point, I will hurt you. I'm not going to do that.”
It's the instant fix mentality of "I take a pill, I feel better." Chiropractic does not fit into that.
The other way to think about this is if you go into the gym and you say, “I'm going to bench the bar plus four plates. Can you do that? Maybe you can bench the bar.”
There are those wooden plates.
If you want to bench 225, can you do that first? If you can't do that, where do you have to start? You have to start somewhere lesser. Can you even do the bar? Do you have good form on the bar? Everything is a progression in life, even getting adjusted. I'm all about what the fastest and shortest distance between two points is. How can you do things smarter and more efficiently to get from point A to point B?
In our case, I want to move from not being healthy to being healthy and moving in that direction. What's the fastest way? Getting your atlas checked and adjusted is going to be the fastest way. Maybe we'll have a couple of corrections in between. There are so many things that we have to learn about their paths. Some paths are better than others. I have about three different ways that I can get down to your office. Two of them Google suggests. I look at that and I'm like, “I don't need to take a 3-hour tour to get down to your office in 2.” Google likes to do that. Have you noticed that?
Yes, I have because it took me in a weird way.
It's like, “Why are you making me want to take an extra 45 minutes?” “It's the eco-friendly route.”
I'm like, “No. It’s me being in the carless. It's my eco-friendly.”
It's understanding that we're trying to figure out the shortest point for people to get from point A to point B as efficiently as possible.
We're trying to figure out the shortest route for people to get from point A to point B as efficiently as possible.
Know that we want that for you. We want you to get well quickly, and the quicker the better, and feel well. We want you to not get well but feel well. We want both. There are some chiropractors or doctors who might string people along and make bad decisions that way. When you meet someone, you know if they have integrity or not. You can feel it coming off of them.
I know you have integrity and I try my hardest to have integrity with that. I never ask people to come in more than I think they should. I'm the first one to decrease this care frequency if they're holding longer periods of time. I don't need to see as often, but sometimes it takes more work with certain people and a certain problem.
If you have a new injury, let's say you lifted a box wrong. A lot of people are taking the Christmas decorations down and carrying tubs of stuff down the stairs. I had multiple of those injuries. It's an injury. If you've pushed your ankle, you don't expect it to feel good after a day. It'll take a week or multiple weeks, depending on how bad the injury is. When you hurt your back, neck, spine, or vertebra, it could be very quick or it could take time too. Those soft tissue injuries that surround a misalignment take time to heal.
The adjustment itself, although it’s very quick and easy for us because it's relatively painless, starts in motion the healing. We get to say, “It's going to take some time. It's not time to go run a marathon on this. You need to take the time to heal.” A lot of people don't take that time to heal. They go immediately back to the gym or immediately to lifting things. That reinjures the same problem over and over again.
I have another patient who has been a student for the past couple of years, but his college career is not going in the direction he wanted it to go. He's also getting into a bunch of courses that don't appeal to him the way they wanted to. He's back to work. He's working as a laborer, making good money, and doing work. Now he's going from needing to get checked and adjusted once every 3 or 4 weeks to “Maybe we should get you in every 2,” because he's doing all this extra work and he's more physically active.
He changed what he was doing. That change then consequently gets him in a situation where he's like, “I need to take care of my body just like I take care of any other of my tools and make sure my head is on straight.” He was saying that in the past two days, he's having a migraine. He texted me, “Doc, when's my next appointment?” I'm like, “If you didn't get texted today to tell you that you have an appointment today, we probably should schedule you for today since you're asking to get an appointment for today.”
That's always a fun text that's like, “When's my next appointment?” “If you're texting me, it's today.”
That is accurate. We're not doing magic pills that immediately change symptoms. We're not talking about things that happen overnight with minimal problems. Let's also address some of the supplements that are going on. We've talked about magnesium in the past as being something good for people. A lot of people will notice an immediate improvement in sleep by taking magnesium before bed. It’s so fast. It’s amazing.
It's a good sleep too. It doesn't feel like a drug sleep. Sometimes, even melatonin will feel like a drug sleep to me. I'm taking magnesium glycinate before bed. I know you take a different type.
I take a malate glycinate, something else, plus magnesium 3 and 8. I'm technically taking four different forms.
I take all the magnesium all the time.
The crazy thing is Tuesday night, I was good about it. I was good about it Monday night and felt good for those days. Not that I didn't feel good waking up this morning, but I know I forgot to take them last night. Sure enough, my recovery was down. Not that I'm feeling tired and didn't give my best, but I can feel I will go to bed early tonight or, at the very least, fall asleep in front of the TV faster.
Don't tell people that. That is bad.
No. I'm in my recliner and I'm in a good posture. I turn off the TV. The other thing that I'm going to point out since I’ve put these out, is Omega-3s. This is another one of those things that are going to take a long time to see benefits. I shouldn't say a long time. You might get a quick benefit early on.
It might lower inflammation pretty quickly.
I think the inflammation is what's going to take some time. You might notice your skin looking better by taking it.
I got a skin thing with that. Here's one of my secrets. When you go on vacation and get a sunburn or a sunburn in general, I triple up on Omega-3s. I take maybe two twice a day or 2 or 3 times a day. Typically, it's one pill that you take and the sunburn gets better so much faster. Don't get sunburn in general, but sometimes it happens.
Interestingly, the standard process has a product called Cataplex F. I'm like, “What is in this product?” It is an essential fatty acid. Fish oils. It's the same thing. It's not a fish oil capsule from standard, but it's trying to deliver that same fatty acid profile that helps say, “Bring this into the cell properly.” Understanding that a lot of sunburns are simply an imbalance of Vitamin D to your body's mineral content in the cells because Vitamin D doesn't care whether or not the minerals are in your gut or your cells. It's pulling all of the minerals into the bloodstream when you get that high exposure. If you can force them back into the cells, you have less of a problem with that burn as well.
Is that one of the things that you would also take an extra dose of Vitamin D after getting sun exposure like that or not?
No, definitely not because you had the dose of Vitamin D. You don't need more Vitamin D at that point in time. You need something else to counter that. As you said about the fish oils, I like Cataplex F. Of course, my first choice so that I don't have any problems with this is the carnivore diet. Quite honestly, since I’ve been on the carnivore diet, I don't burn. It is surprisingly a solution. Everyone is like, “What's the best superfood?” It's beef.
Funny story, talking about meat. We got done with the holidays. At Christmas time, normally, we haven't had everyone coming back for a while. It was the first time that all the siblings were at the house, plus all the grandchildren. It was a wild time. My brother Dave doesn't come to the family gatherings as much. I don't know. Dave's angry.
I did make a comment to his wife that I don't think I’ve seen them in what feels like a decade, but it's certainly been two years. Anyway, I made this brisket. I'm experimenting with times and have him try it because I’ve already tasted it and wanted to get his opinion. He takes a piece and he’s like, “It’s good.” That's high praise from Dave.
We were all like, “That was the best thing ever.” They complain about me telling my sister that she didn't temper her chocolate turtles properly because they're melting in my fingers. I'm like, “I know.” They're giving me grief because I'm bringing up the fact that she didn't do them right. As I kept on stuffing my face full of chocolate turtles because they were so good,
That's the thing. Over the holidays, we sometimes indulge in our sweets or something like that. What I did was threw all that crap away. There was still stuff left in the pantry and now it's gone. Now I have my meat and vegetables. I know you don't eat the vegetables. I'm sorry to say the V word in front of you.
I'm okay. I will not die.
I'm back on my meat and vegetables and I feel so much better.
It's so fast. The crazy thing is this. Did you notice how, in the first couple of days, you were craving the stuff that you had thrown away? It is addicting. Our food supply is designed. Designed is the right word. I don't want to say it's poison, but it's poison.
It's designed to be an addictive poison.
One of my patients was complaining about her fibromyalgia, but she went to a place called Ollie's. Are you familiar with that?
Yeah. We have one right by my house now.
That might've been the one she went to. She walks in there and sees Boston Cream Pop-Tarts.
They're probably almost out of date, by the way, because that's what Ollie's about. It’s stuff that's about to go out of date.
The other side of it is I'm like, “That's pure diabetes.” I miss Boston cream donuts, but not that much.
I can't have Pop-Tarts in my house because I freaking love them. If I had one day where I was like, “I'm going to eat whatever I want,” you put all of the things in front of me, like all of the brownies and cookies and Pop-Tarts is one of them, like a strawberry Pop-Tart or cherry Pop-Tart, I'm all over that one. It's a chemical storm that my body craves once I eat one. It's a package of two serving sizes. Of course, you eat the second one. How much do you suffer after that too? Let's say you've been eating well for a week now or for 3 or 4 weeks.
That one moment where you're like, “I'm going to eat this Pop-Tart,” you have a choice at that point. You can eat it and say, “That's the one thing I'm going to do and I'm right back to where I'm supposed to be.” You can do that. Now you've turned on that center in your brain that says, “Just one more and one more thing.” You start craving that. You know those four other Pop-Tarts are sitting in the back of the pantry. It’s just one box. It's like cigarettes. You have one more and then you go another pack, another pack and then you're back to addiction.
The worst part is that in about a week or two after this episode gets released, Girl Scout cookies will be everywhere.
It's Girl Scout cookie time. It is happening.
Here's the worst part. Realize that a serving size of Thin Mints isn't two cookies. It is one sleeve. It is the whole sleeve. There are two servings in that box and it's a sleeve of Thin Mints. You all know that that is a true statement because it is that addicting.
You eat two and you may even put them in the freezer because they're delicious in the freezer. You will go back to that freezer and go back and back. At some point, you'll be out of cookies and you'll be sad. You're also going to be sitting in your soul, and then your knees are going to start to hurt when you go up and down the stairs. That's me because the inflammation levels go straight up. What do you do when you go to the grocery store? You buy more of that crap because now you've started the cycle again. Don't do it. If you want to support the Girl Scouts, you do not have to buy their cookies. You can buy cookies for servicemen or overseas service people.
Just write them a check. I write them a check because all they're looking to do is they're going looking to do their jamborees or their trips or whatever. We don't need to feed a cookie industry and literal cookie monsters.
A good name for the show should be Cookie Monsters.
We'll talk about Cookie Monster. The other problem was that my sister-in-law knows that I love seven-layer bars and makes them gluten-free. She had these cute little plates, the square plates. She had different cookies on them. On both of the plates, she had two of them on the table. I could pick the one that had a few of them. What she was doing was coming in with this square tin 9 x 9 tray and putting it back.
About the second time that I saw her bringing that tray out, I'm like, “No. Michelle, you're going to put that right here in front of me so that I don't have to reach and you don't have to keep on filling up the plate,” because I knew I was going to eat those things until they were gone or until I decided that I was done with them. Somehow, at 8:00, done. My brain said, “I’ve had enough. I had already had a pound of ground beef earlier. I made sure to eat a bunch of chicken at dinner. I prioritized protein.
The entire week I'm over at my dad's, I expected that brisket to last me a couple of days. It was gone that night because that's how good the brisket was. It wasn't just Dave and I that liked the brisket, but Dad had three hams. Instead of doing the packet glaze with all sorts of extra chemicals and garbage in it, we put butter and honey together on it.
You guys make your own honey, don't you?
We do. The bees make the honey. We harvest it.
I know, but you harvest the honey.
We did that, and honestly, every time that I had a chance to eat ham, I ate ham. I ran some numbers. Jean had bought me a couple of chuck roasts because I was out of beef and I knew I needed beef daily in my diet. She gets these two-and-a-half-pound chuck roasts. I smoke both of them. I proceed to eat one on one day and then the next, the next. I'm probably also eating a pound or more of ham on those same days. I probably put down anywhere close to 4,000 calories of meat. All of that protein is protein and my body says, “You're fine.” I'm still a little bit higher as far as the scale.
I want to put a little disclaimer. You are not necessarily trying to lose any weight at this point. You're trying to maintain and build muscle, correct?
I would like to lose some body fat at this point. The new program I'm on is doing that.
I'm saying for people tuning in, you do not need 4,000 calories of protein. You, personally but that person tuning in probably does not need 4,000 calories of meat in a day unless you're an elite athlete.
No, because I was listening to a guy down in New Zealand. What's his name? He was on John Baker's Carnivore podcast. He said he did about a couple of weeks’ worth of 6,500 calories a day of beef, just red meat. He lost 15 pounds. I'm thinking I might have to try that because, quite honestly, I'm also trying to build muscle.
How many ounces of beef would that be?
I’ll look at what the math was from last week that I did.
I know there's fat and stuff like that.
We use chuck roast because chuck roast is probably the best bang for your buck when you go to the grocery store for that. Folks, also bear in mind that I was probably walking anywhere from 10,000 to 15,000 steps. There was a lot of chainsawing and wood chopping going on.
I’ve chopped no wood this year.
Everyone has their own. Thirty-six ounces of Chuck Roast is 3,300 calories.
How many did you say?
Thirty-six. Two and a little bit more pounds. Thirty-two ounces is 2 pounds. Thirty-six is 2 pounds, 4 ounces.
We're looking at about 5 pounds of meat for the 6,000 calories. I don't think I could do it, doc.
You have to work up to it. I don't think you can do this. If you go over to Dali's across the street, get 2 pounds of brisket and work your way through that with coleslaw. You need to have their coleslaw. The coleslaw will help cut some of that fat.
You told me that vegetables are trying to kill me.
They are, but coleslaw will help you eat the brisket. There is a balance for some of these things. Some things need a little bit of vegetables so that you can eat more meat.
You have weird rules. I don't know if I believe all of them, but I think you might BS-ing some people here.
I didn’t say I'm always a carnivore. I'm saying I'm mostly carnivore and if when people are like, “Doc, where are we going to go eat?” I'm like, “I don't care. Just find me a place that has beef.” I was thinking about this at lunch. The next time we are looking at steakhouses, my rule will be who has a 2-pound ribeye on their menu. I won't care who it is. That's where I want to eat.
Let's put that away. That's a lot of meat.
It is. I like a lot of meat.
I think that should be the name of the show.
I thought the show was going to be Cookie Monster.
No. I like a lot of meat.
It's probably going to be Cookie Monster. Folks, you'll know because you'll see it before you hear about this. I think that's a good place for us to end because I need to go get some bacon and some eggs.
I'm starting to get slap-happy.
Dr. Bagley, where are they going to find you?
Precision Chiropractic. We are on the West side of St. Louis. You can find me at PrecisionChiroSTL.com.
I'm glad I'm not too far from where you're at as far as the slap-happy either. I'm at KeystoneChiroSPI.com. Keystone Chiropractic in Springfield, Illinois. Folks, make sure you like, subscribe, and hit that thumbs-up button. Tell people about it. Share the show because, quite honestly, I'm hearing weird things about the algorithms not sharing stuff. This is a health show. This is not sponsored by any of the pharmaceutical companies.
I don't want them to sponsor us. I think we should be sponsored by Merck.
Of course, I heard an alternative news podcast that I was listening to sponsored by ABC and I'm like, “They will take that money.” Folks, you have a good one. We'll be back for another episode. Have a good one.
Just as random as today’s weather changes, this summer brought us even more randomness! Dr. Frederick Schurger and Dr. Beth Bagley are not the ones to pass this up by literally talking about anything under the sun within their practices. From power outages, internet issues, barometer changes, workouts, and more, we explore how these various factors affect patients in different ways. Tune in for some good laughs, fun stories, and some deep insights on chiropractic as we make sense of the randomness that kept us on our toes this season. Join Drs. Schurger and Bagley for another random episode during this summer break.
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Welcome to the show.
Everyone just missed. Go ahead, say it again without the one thing that we didn't want recorded.
All of it, you don’t want to be recorded. There were words that were not allowed on some sites. I would have had to blur out the simple I made with my fingers on YouTube, but none of that was towards Dr. Schurger. That was a hell of a day.
Those happen and quite honestly, it's been one of those weeks. My first half of the week was busy. The second half hasn't been as bad, but before, I did a pseudo-show with Dwayne Hoskins over at Titronics. For those of you who are unfamiliar, he is one of the lead sales and research in marketing for the instrument that we use to measure the temperature on the back of people. They have a new product out that is cloud-based.
My biggest reason to go cloud-based for everything is simply security because we are small businesses as chiropractors. Eventually, it's not a matter of if. It's a matter of when we are going to have a data attack on us. We want to make sure that data is safe and HIPAA compliant. I remember when HIPPA was being rolled out and I have gone through an OSHA compliance thing. You have probably gone through OSHA compliance when you were back in the industry.
I was going to say I remember how to do it for chiropractic, but back in back in Monsanto days.
It's the same thing. It's like, “Sit down your rules and your rigs and show that you are doing your rules and regs. You are accommodating by your processes.” HIPPA is very similar, except for there's also a level of security. I worry that we don't have this stuff as protective, which is why I have gone to extreme lengths to get it protected to make sure that it's as secure as possible. That's one of the pushes I have going toward a cloud platform. There are a lot of reasons not to go to a cloud platform.
There are.
The security alone outweighs that message.
Honestly, the Titronics is for any chiropractor who has been reading. I do recommend the Titronics cloud system. First of all, giving them a monthly fee is not that much money to help support them because they help support us. I'm always about that and helping another small business succeed with a small monthly fee. It runs faster.
Honestly, I was having trouble because of the server base. It was a computer in my office that it would cue back to. It wasn't the computer I was scanning off of. I was having trouble. It was taking a long time for the patient to load and now it happens very quickly. It's less glitchy. The only issue we have had is when our internet goes down, but I have a lot more issues when our internet goes down, like our phones don't work. All sorts of stuff.
This is the worst part about technology is we are so mild in the muck of it. You have two questions on your mind. What happens when it goes down, but does anything work when it goes down? The other half of it is in my brain because I see a lot of Amish patients. It’s like, “My power went out.” They are like, “How'd that go for you, Doc?” “I wasn't too bad. It was like camping.” I do like my air conditioning. They laughed a little bit at that and we lucked out that it was pleasant weather when we lost power.
Speaking of weather and power outages, have you noticed that certain patients will react to other changes? I'm going to say two of them and see if you can add any. I have got migraines that react to weather changes and vertigo. Do you have any other patients that have things?
I have a great one. It was probably back in January. They were threatening a bad snowstorm the next day. One of my nuns was brought in by one of her caretakers and she made the comment. When the snowstorm came in the week before, she felt every bit of it because it was in her knees. The threat that they were making was that there was going to be a major snowstorm the next day, which never transpired. She's like, “No, we are not going to get a snowstorm.” I felt one day before, this one here, my knees are fine. I have more reliability in faith and her knees of an impending storm than I do have of the weather forecast.
We should make her own YouTube channel and focus on, “How are your knees feeling today, sister?”
That would be so funny. It would be one of those best channels ever, and it would probably be more predictive for the locals. One of the things that I would say that's going on is I bought a couple of barometers to see what is going on with that. I have got a barometer in the middle of the office. It's inside compared to outside. You do still have those changes throughout the building when you get a weather change, and you can see it.
What I find curious is there are people who have weather-change problems, but I don't know if it is a matter of a big pressure change or the speed of the pressure change that seems to be the factor there. People with arthritis can feel that heavier pressure is present a little bit more acutely. I bought it for my Meniere's cases, and I never saw it. I asked them questions and I was like, “I had a bad case.” I'm like, “That needle didn't move over the weekend.” It's a lot of questions that don't make sense. I think there is a component there but I don't know what the component is. It would be nice if it was more obvious.
We have had a couple of our patients using this app and earplug thing called WeatherX. I just downloaded that. These earplugs are not expensive, which I love, in comparison to regular earplugs there, but they are only $18 or $15 or something. They are specialized earplugs that help mitigate the pressure changes that people feel in their ears. It's got the barometric pressure. It is decreasing now by 0.12 and tomorrow it's going to be increasing but it will ding and tell you when you need to put your earplugs in. I have got a couple. My patients are trying it out because I was like, “Try this out. See if it helps.” Two of them say that they have noticed it helping with their migraines. It's another option for people who notice that there are big changes in the head symptoms, migraine, headache, or vertigo symptoms.
It makes sense because of the sensors of our body. Everyone thinks of the five senses and there's something more like a dozen when we start looking at the pressure sensors, especially inside our body. We have barrel receptors that know. The ducks and the geese have baroreceptors and all the birds that fly south for the winter. They have barrel receptors to know when they need to start flying because the storms are coming. We don't have them as attuned to that, for one reason or another, but we still have sensors like that. All of these things could be related.
It could be triggering for people.
Where do people tend to feel that pressure? It's in the inner ears because if you have ever flown on a plane.
Even going up and down in an elevator. It’s a ton of building. You can feel that.
If you have bad ear congestion, I was telling another patient about the situation I had. I was flying out to San Diego. We stopped in Colorado. I acclimate up there, and I'm up in an airplane, and then San Diego's sea level. It is probably the most agonizing pain I ever had. I thought I was going to go to the ER because I was going to have blood coming down my ears. I probably was wearing a white shirt that day, too. That would have been bad for the shirt and my vest. Thankfully, that didn't happen.
Thanks for all the visuals of that.
I know. It's wonderful that. I’m sitting on the airplane. I'm trying to get my jaw to move at my ears to pop at all because the pressure felt like it was going to explode. I'm preparing myself. It's like, “We are going to get me off the plane. Someone is going to notice the blood. We are going to call the ER and get someone to figure out what's going on and all of this stuff here. This is going to be fun.” Thankfully, it didn't. I got adjusted by the great Jessica Lee down there. She came in special for me, and then I got into an Uber and whacked my head immediately.
It’s not how it goes. That made me think of something. Do you know how kids are more prone to ear infections than adults? What's the direction of the ear canal in adults?
It's more downward.
Adults are more prone to ear infections because their ear canal is more downward.
For the kids are more cloggy.
They don't change as much because the heads are big but the head hasn't fully developed. Those eustachian tubes finally dropped down so they can drain properly as we get older.
The same thing for a baby or a child on an airplane is going to be more prone to having extreme pain in their ears, probably for the same reason. As you were saying, if there's a child or an adult that has ear infections or your complaints going on, this is one of the reasons that chiropractic is so amazing is because that atlas bone, what we talked about all the time that top bone in the neck, is so close to the eustachian tube. If we took a 3D image of where the eustachian tube and the atlas are, you can, I would say, have physical pressure because of the swelling and stuff around the atlas on the eustachian tube, not to mention the dysfunction that happens in the ear because of neurologically.
You have the other component where there's an actual little muscle that is attached to that eustachian tube that if the atlas is out of place and now you have got everything else to twist. That muscle is not going to be functioning the way it's supposed to be mechanically and structurally. Everything is going to be in the wrong position and that muscle is going to say, “I find where I'm at,” but it's causing a blockage until everything gets corrected. Once that happens, life is better for people.
Also, parents who have had babies have frequent ear infections. These babies are miserable. They keep getting put on antibiotics. The ear infections keep coming back because the problem isn't that they need any antibiotics. The problem is that there's dysfunction and how the tubes work.
Everybody else on the plane gets the benefit of the kid being healthy and not screaming their heads off. It's a real win-win situation all the way around.
Still, get your kids checked.
Give the card to your favorite upper cervical practitioner to those screaming parents and say, “I know it. I get it. Go see this doctor. They will help you.”
I have a new patient. I just got her first adjustment and she says, “Do you check kids? Are kids coming here too?” I was like, “Yes, kids of all ages. We had a toddler in here. Sometimes I have babies in here.” I had three teenage boys all the same time. They were separate entities. Two of them knew each other. I love that I had three teenage boys all the same time. All of them driving age that came in. Their parents gave them permission to come in because that doesn't happen very often, especially for, teenage boys. They don't typically take care of themselves or think about that stuff.
All three of them had parents or loved ones who said, “The reason you are constantly popping your neck is that this is happening. Come and see Dr. Bagley or whatever. However, they came in.” It's cool that at that moment, I had three unrelated teenage boys that were all resting. 1 had a head adjustment, but 2 of them were resting. One is the son of a chiropractor who sends him in here because she wants that specialized care for him, which is cool, too. That's probably the best compliment a chiropractor can get, is when a chiropractor sends their kid to see you.
The best compliment a chiropractor can get is when a chiropractor sends their kid to see you.
Even they are coming in for themselves and they don't practice what we do. I have several of those. It is neat to see the kids coming in and they get it, especially boys. You got to tell them, “You are going to hurt yourself lifting in the weight room if you don't have your head on straight.” They are like, “I get it. I don't want to break myself.”
They don't. Boys are rough and tough. I’m not saying girls can't be too but tend to be a little crazier.
Honestly, with boys, we have to remember if it's not falling off it's not a problem. I don't care what part I'm talking about isn't falling off. Girls, you go through a whole different thing starting through puberty and you have to be extra careful about things. You are already taking care of your health. I was probably 24 when I started realizing I needed to do something about my health. I saw my grandparents and some of my cousins.
I took a hard look and I said, “I cannot let myself get into that situation.” That's when I started eating healthier. I started cleaning up my diet. I did all of the things. It still took me 2 or 3 years to find chiropractic but it didn't dawn on me where I was going. Sometimes, you can look at your older aunts and uncles and say, “That's not the direction I want to go,” and let them be the role models that they are supposed to be for you. That's a big one right there all the way around.
I had a patient that came in. It was a referral. It's an opposite referral, what I mean by that is a wife comes in first and then refers her husband in because that's how that usually works. This time it was a husband that's been patient for us for years then he sent his wife in. She had back pain that wasn't going away, unrelenting.
She tried all the things and he finally was like, “Go see her,” and she did. She wasn’t mad about it. She just didn't know until he said it. It was good that he opened his mouth and said, “Go see my chiropractor.” She came in and it was back pain. She didn't have neck pain, but where did I adjust her neck? I didn't touch her back. The next time she came in, she was 100% better. Honestly, does everybody get better 100% with 1 adjustment in their back? No, but I was so happy to hear that.
Especially those back pain cases that aren't a hot disc or a 60-year-old. I see those get better.
She is retirement age, so she is older but she's healthy. She takes good care of herself. One of the things that happens is rebound happen. She lost her adjustment and her back started hurting. That's one thing that I like to point out to people, is that when you first start care, sometimes it feels like you feel like a$1 million after an adjustment. That's incredible. We celebrate that but I was like to warn people as it's a roller coaster and a marathon. Not a sprint.
There's going to be times when you feel great then times when it feels like the rug got pulled out from under you and you are hurting so bad. That's okay too. That is part of the process of healing and it's up and down. That happens with all sorts of healing. Not just chiropractic care. If somebody had gotten a broken arm, it might feel good one day and the next day, it's achy type of thing even though it's still healing, so cycles of healing.
It's one of those things that some people will get, I wouldn't say she was upset. She was upset but I have had patients in the past being upset that they are not getting better anymore. I'm letting you know if you are one of those people out there who is struggling and having ups and downs in your chiropractic care. That's so normal. Not everybody is that miracle that feels good forever.
We are all going to hit a plateau in our healing process. You cannot push and push always gets better and better. At a certain point in time, you have got to sit back and coast and let everything work the way it's supposed to before it can move to the next level. Before it's ready to make another transition for better and more strong healing. I wish we had a better way to understand that and describe it. For working out, it's just a matter of understanding that you will train so much.
We're all going to hit a plateau in our healing process. You cannot push and push and always get better and better. At a certain point in time, you've got to sit back and let everything work the way it's supposed to before it can move to the next level.
That's a great example. Let's use Olympic athletes as an example. They will train not for something coming down 2 weeks out but oftentimes, 4 years out or 2 years out for a meet. They will start training in a fashion that slowly builds up their strength, agility, and function over not a month but several months. Sometimes up to a year. I remember a good friend of ours, I want to call him Dr. Keith Wassung. He is an honorary chiropractor.
He probably knows more than most chiropractors but he was a powerlifter for the Navy. He had an amazing record and skillset when he was doing that. His doctor was Reagan's doctor back in the day to put things in perspective. His training routine and he still does some level of that now. He starts training in January and continues training through the year through November. December is his time off.
He likes to share that his November, while they are doing all their shopping, his wife and daughters love to do Black Friday sales. Keith picks up a spot in the food court where that's home base. The girls are out shopping then they want to drop off a package before we go into the next shop. They dropping it off with him. He's sitting down and writing out his game plan. Reviewing what got him to that part of the end of the year and what he wants to do going forward.
He used that strategy for weightlifting and powerlifting. He went through a bunch of weight loss stuff for himself as well. How does he plot out that strategy? When we start thinking that life is not a sprint. None of life is a sprint. Neither is healing. Even a sprinter for the Olympics is going to train for several years with the goal of qualifying for the Olympics and then going for the gold. That is a process that doesn't happen overnight. I got two new kettlebells for my birthday. They are nice.
How heavy are they?
They are only 28 kilograms a piece which is 62 pounds a piece.
You got two of them?
That's the exercise. That's the program. I'm doing. One day, I do use one and the other day, I used both. We won't talk about how badly my quads hurt from doing squats.
I have to say one other thing. I worked out with my trainer, me, and my girls. We should have run sometime. She's an awesome person. My trainer’s named Natalie Coomer and she's in the St. Louis area. She trains women only. She had this cool exercise which was awful, too. It's always awful, but I was proud of doing it. One of the things she had us work out which I had never done before was she had us work out our psoas muscle.
We were in almost like a half-sit-up position holding a weight on our chest and squeezing into it, and then we lifted 1 leg at a time for 30 seconds or so. By the end of it, you are burning. We did it a couple of times. When I was getting into the car, I was lifting my leg into the car because it hurt so bad.
It feels so good when it works.
Honestly, I told a couple of patients because they saw me walking weirdly. They are like, “What's wrong, Doc?” I was like, “I worked out with a new trainer and I can't move my legs.” She’s trying to turn certain muscles on because we are going to do this running exercise but I thought that was incredible because we know all about how the psoas. It’s the connection between the lower half and the upper half of the body. It's wonderful when it's working right and terrible when it's working wrong.
Psoas, in case you are reading and want to look it up, it starts with a P. The next exercise she did with us was we ran up a giant hill ten times. She had to do this cool thing where we had a clipboard at the top of the hill and every time, we completed one run up the hill. We wrote a thought like what we were thinking. It went from like, “This sucks. I can't do it,” to, “I'm proud of myself. I completed it.”
It's a cool thought process, but the coolest part about this and that it goes toward healing and everything. I love that she did this for us, that is when we got to the bottom of the hill. We would walk down the bottom of the hill. It was like was a HIIT interval time. By the time you are at the bottom of the hill, you are breathing is somewhat coming back down to normal. She goes, “Don't turn around and look at the hill until you are ready to go back up it again.” She had us continue to look down and couldn't stay there as long as we wanted to but when it was time to go, turned turn and went. You didn't turn and contemplate the hill in front of you.
Way to go, Natalie, because that was so incredible for my twins to enlist. It was even for me, who's done lots of self-help and all the things but physically doing it. When you contemplate, overthink an action, and overthink something that’s coming up and it comes with healing or even getting up the phone to call a new chiropractor, therapist, or doctor even if you know you need to do it. Your brain is like, “What if I don't like them?” Stop the what-ifs. Pick up the phone and call somebody to get the help you need.
It's funny because a while ago, I came down and I got adjusted by you. I still didn't feel great. I was off.
Are you saying I didn't do my job right?
You did, but I was still healing. I was unable to work out for the better part of a week and a half.
That’s rough for you.
It was. I didn't work out for one week. The bell that I normally do for my warm-up felt too heavy, which is always my reason not to work out that day. I still ordered new bells. That's the funny part about that. There was a little bit of apprehension as I picked up these two new bells. What's funny is 62 pounds, it's a little heavier than what I had been using, which is 53 pounds. It doesn't sound like a huge jump. It isn't, but it still felt daunting.
My kettlebell snatched what I was supposed to do on Tuesdays. I'm like, “I don't know if I can do this.” It was only the first time I had been using A) This style of bell and B) That weight. For a while now, I had done 30 reps aside with the 53-pound kettlebell. I said, “I'm only doing three reps. I bet I can do three reps,” which is nice because this thing then builds up from there. Again, it was that same hill. It's like, “I can do this,” and I did it. I ripped up my hand. A nice little remnant of a blood blister. I got one of the other hand too.
It looks like the stigmata.
Stigmata would be down in your wrist. This is my kettlebell stigmata.
In some movies, they have done it wrong in the past.
I know, but in any case, as I said, it's my sacrifice.
Not as powerful as Jesus, but it's fine.
It's the second best thing that I can do to make sure that I am as strong as I have to be because, after 28, I'm going to need a pair of 32s. I have owned a 32 for a while. I can't push that overhead. I can do a Turkish get-up with it. I can do a Turkish get-up with 88 pounds without a problem, but with overhead pressing from what they call the clean position or the rack position to overhead. Something is not connecting as far as strength-wise. I don't know what it is. I haven't been able to figure it out.
Maybe it's because you had a birthday.
That's why I bought the new bells. No, I feel stronger than ever. When you are 50 years old, you look as good as you will not.
You do look great. A happy belated birthday, Dr. Schurger.
Thank you.
That's a big deal, hitting the big 50.
This is only a third of my way there. Again, how do you plan for that bigger and longer thing? Why did at 25 I realize I needed to do something with my health because somewhere in my brain said, “You are going to make it to 150,” and I'm like, “Okay.”
That’s your thing. You want to make it 150.
Be as strong and active as I am now. People are like, “Doc, you are crazy. Why are you doing it this way?” It's like, “I make some sacrifices but they are not things that are beneficial in the long run.” Jean surprised me. The best birthday cake ever. I did not know and I was still not feeling great. The birthday cake made it better.
Birthday cakes make everything better.
It does. I still have a slice left. It will be gone when this is posted, but I still have a slice left after doing another round of snatches and probably more stigmata.
Tearing up somewhere over your hands. Your hands, I call these my money makers. I take good care of my hands. I don't do anything that's going to hurt them. It sounded like you are doing some stuff that's going to hurt your hands.
No, these are just making them stronger.
Be careful.
I always am.
What does a chiropractor do, especially a chiropractor that doesn't have an associate or anything? What would you do if you were hurt to the point where you couldn't practice for a little bit? Maybe not forever, but for a temporary disability.
First, I'd be living at your house until you got me working better.
That's true.
I would do that, then I come back.
A couple of weeks, and that's the same thing I would say. We would take a couple of weeks off and make sure that we are back on track.
A funny story, Dr. Matthias, who sadly passed. He practiced in the area. He was an upper cervical doc. He'd been practicing for many years. I won't say that he was as healthy as he could have been, but he didn't miss a day. He was always in adjustment. He had a couple of people who worked on him. He did the orthospinology technique. In a real pinch, he taught his wife how to adjust him with an instrument then he was working out in his shed. When I say shed, it was one of the nicest workshops I have ever seen. A big old barn.
He was climbing down a ladder from an upper level when the ladder slipped. I can't remember what it was. I don't remember if it came back off the wall or if it slipped backward underneath. Either way, he falls. Doc is not doing good. I get the call that he's not doing good and I have been adjusting him a little bit at this point. He walks in.
I can still remember him walking in with I want to say he either had two canes. Maybe he had a walker that day because he was that laid up. My phone was always already ringing off the hook with referrals from him because he couldn't practice. I'm like, “This is it. I'm going to start seeing Doc’s patients.” I adjusted him and he's already feeling better. He comes in a little bit later that week. He went from a walker to canes, and then the following week, he's back in business. It was the absolute worst thing I could have done for my practice because I didn't get all of his patients right then and there. I know it’s horrible. I have them now. They have been coming to me since he retired and then passed away, unfortunately.
That's proof positive that when you put effort into your health. If I have a patient who's been coming to see me for years, it happens that a car accident or an injury happens, I do feel they get better faster because they have already invested so much in their ability to heal then we get them back on track.
I have had several people who have been regular patients who get in a car accident and I'm on the fence whether or not I need to even run it as a PI case and use their insurance.
It’s going to take a couple of adjustments.
I have had cases where they have been a regular and then they get in a car accident. The car accident compounds other problems and they are a complete mess. I have those cases, too.
I have got one now.
They are no fun. We love them to death and we help them.
I feel so bad for her. She was doing so great for years and the stupid whiplash injury. Folks, stop texting when driving.
It's not worth it, but there are cases. I have had several where they get a small fender bender. We adjust them once or twice, and then they are back to it. It's like nothing.
That's what we hope will happen with everyone. Sometimes it throws people for a loop and they get new misalignments and extra problems. That patient I sent that to Dr. Blake who used to work here. She started doing acupuncture full-time. I sent her to start doing some acupuncture. It's helping the upper cervical that we have been doing. The acupuncture might be helping her hold her adjustments a little bit better.
There are a lot of modalities that you can use to clean that stuff up. We have talked about a clean diet, improving other activities being physically active, and going for a walk. These little things will all pay towards the end of improving your health and function. There's no one thing. I can get my atlas adjusted but it's not going to help me lift those kettlebells unless I lift the kettlebells. It's not going to help you get up the hill if you are not ready to go up that hill again. It is one of those things where we have to understand that all of these parts and pieces are intertwined. There's much going on. Nature is a grand thing. We just need to be appreciative of what we have and how all these things work. There's a season as the song goes.
Nature is nature. It is a grand thing and we just need to be appreciative of what we have and how all these things work.
For everything, there is a season.
We need to understand that's part and parcel of healing and getting better. Speaking of seasons, by the time this gets posted, it will be hunting season.
Does that mean it will be fall? My favorite season of all.
It will be. You probably want your pumpkin spice stuff.
You know I am a basic girl. I love you some pumpkin spice. I'm already drinking my pumpkin spice tea. I drink it all year round.
You need to get some of the Timcast.
You know I don't do coffee anymore.
Cast Brew has an all-year-round pumpkin spice blend now. For the hunters, be mindful that you might benefit from getting your head on straight before you go out there. Two things, one, if you are a bow hunter, recognize that, as you probably are aware, you have a very dominant side as you are hunting and pulling that bow back and that can cause some imbalances. Hopefully, you are balancing that out with some other stuff. As I'm learning bow, hunting is a push-pull. For me, the left hand is pushing and the right hand is pulling. As I'm starting to get into pistol shooting, the right hand is a push and the left hand is a pull. It's the opposite. There's the balance and when I relax, I can hit the target.
Again, it's understanding and appreciating that because if you are sitting and you have got your bow drawn, that full draw and you are waiting as that deer, buck, or elk is sitting in front of you. You are waiting for that right shot. That's a lot of stress on your body in an extended position. Hopefully, it will pay off, but it might cause your atlas to be out of place. Your next shot may not be as good. The same thing for rifles. You are sometimes in an odd position while you are doing that.
For a long period, waiting too on a stand or a blind. The story I have is a couple of years ago. This burly man came in and he was hurting. He loves to hunt. It was hunting season, so I didn't see him as often. He should come in because it was hunting season. That is no excuse for you to miss your chiropractic care.
It's the hunting season, but that is no excuse for you to miss your chiropractic care.
Tag out first and then get in for your appointments.
Don't miss your appointments. That's all I'm going to say. He came in and it was already in the middle of the season. He was sitting in his deer stand. He knew his sight and how far he could see. He came in to get his adjustments done, and he said, “Could this help me see better?” I go, “Funny you may say that but it can because there are muscles in your eyes and all sorts of things neurologically that can be changed by an upper cervical misalignment or alignment.” He goes, “I can see down to the end of my sight line now where it used to start getting blurry much closer.” I say, “That's incredible.” He only started coming in when he couldn't see as far down.
The beautiful thing is for those people who are like, “Where's the science behind this?” The Carrick Institute did a study on this where they were looking at the shrinking blind spot. We have a blind spot on the back of our retina where the optical nerve comes in. There's a spot where the nerves come in and all the rods and cones that make up the back of your eye. They are not there. Supposedly, your blind spot is a consistent size all the time.
What was interesting is Carrick did a pre and post-study of adjusting. I don't remember what level got adjusted somewhere in the neck. What they found is they were able to see that the blind spots would shrink. There's some computer-aided design they were able to say, “This is where I don't see stuff.” The blind spot shrunk 20%. It was significant. It's a big amount.
The better you have your head on straight, the better your eyesight will be. The better everything functions. Funny aside, I have been hating my prescription now. This is the prescription that I have had since I was 15 or 16. As of late, it has been painful to wear so I want to take it off throughout the day more. I'm not even doing the Andrew Huberman walk for twenty minutes first thing in the morning at dawn to help with the eyeballs. Something is doing better, so I have got to go get an eye checkup and see what's going on with that.
The better you have your head on straight, the better your eyesight will be, the better everything functions.
My question is, how do you go get an eye checkup? This is what I'm going to tell you. You start by making an appointment and then you go. Just do it. In the morning, set of phone alarm to call and make the appointment, and then you will do it. That's the same for whoever is reading this show now, being like, “I don't know if I want to.” Whether it's with one of us or another upper cervical doctor in your area, just make that appointment.
Let's clarify. As soon as you make the appointment, you have got the appointment schedule. Make an appointment with your upper cervical doctor to get checked before your eye appointment so that you have the optimal level of visual acuity so that when they check your eyes, you get the best thing. I like to find a doctor or an optometrist who has been trained in something called NORA, which I'm going to butcher it. I want to say it's neuro-optometrists something, but anyway. That's what they are doing.
Neuro-Optometric Rehabilitation Association.
That's it. I knew I was going to butcher it but these doctors are trained optometrists. They are like every other optometrist except for us with the upper cervical. We went through all the chiropractic school then we started looking at these more neurological things. We looked at the atlas and how all of these pieces have a more profound effect on the body. These optometrists are trained in such a way that they are looking to make sure you have the right prescription for your eyeballs that will affect how your body works.
It's more than how well you can see because most people are seated in a chair doing the vision analysis. The problem is I don't sit in my chair all day long. I stand a lot, walk a lot, and move around, and that changes my prescription and the center of gravity of my body. Mine drops significantly when I have got the right prescription in.
It's funny because if anybody asks, I will demonstrate, but you can pick a spot on me and try to push me over with finger pressure. I will take my glasses off. You can push the same spot with less pressure and I will generally try not to fall over, but you will push me over. It is amazing how much it settles down to a more comfortable spot. Again, my eyeballs haven't been happy lately. I need to do something about that.
Make the appointment.
I will.
If you have to come down here, you can always stay with me.
I got a guy in Peoria that I go to visit.
I always like a reason for you to come down so I can get a good adjustment, too. If you have anything else for this episode, Doctor? I think we did a lot of random. We are going to call this the random episode.
The only problem is this is their second random episode in a row.
They were good. We had good stuff.
We did have a lot of good stuff and unfortunately, we have been on a hiatus these past couple of weeks because we have had other things going on in our world.
We call it summer break.
It is our summer break as we start to get the next round of episodes in the books. In any case, we will be back with another episode. Hopefully, we will have something more organized. If you are interested in a topic, certainly send us an email.
I will post it. Let us know.
We appreciate that and five-star reviews. That helps the algorithm. The five-star reviews we will start looking at them as they start rolling in. I haven't looked to see if we have any, to be quite honest. If you are doing it, I will read the five-star reviews as best as I can. We will share and, hopefully, get more people to share the show because as much as we love doing this, this is about getting people well and changing people's lives. Dr. Bagley, where are they going to find you?
I am in St. Louis, Missouri. You can find me at precisionchiropracticstl.com/.
Sounds great, and I'm at KeystoneChiroSPI.com in Springfield, Illinois. That's it. It’s been a long day.
You, guys, have a good one.